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  1. Kimiko

    Kimiko Porn Star

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    I think I love you, Penny....:)
     
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  2. Kimiko

    Kimiko Porn Star

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    DL, what you're defending here (regarding the persecution of Mormons for polygamy) is, at best vigilantism. Why did Christians feel it necessary to take the law into their own hands, prepare the tar and feathers, and run the Mormons out of town?

    Of course, Mormon's don't exactly have their skirts clean either. But that just proves the point.

    *not_secure_link*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_massacre
     
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  3. Penny_Lane

    Penny_Lane Porno Junky

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    Oh, girl, don't you tease me now :p I love reading your posts, btw; they're always so well-thought out & rationale.
     
    #43
  4. Kimiko

    Kimiko Porn Star

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    Thank you sweetie....and believe me, I'm not teasing. ;)

    Seriously, though...your views, and the way you express them, are like a breath of fresh air.
     
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  5. bar34

    bar34 The Guardian Angel

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    like the afgans don´t have enought problems allready !
     
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  6. stumbler

    stumbler Porn Star

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    Yeah, and what gets me is most of them, just like Deidre claim to believe in the Bible but apparently never read it or they would surely run across verses like Jeremiah 5:21, which says; "Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not:"

    Common translation: There are none so blind that will not see.

    You'd think they'd be willing to practice what the Bible preaches.

    Holy Bullshit DL you can really come up with some doozies.

    Fundamental Christians being tolerant of Israel is one thing. Christians being tolerant of Jews or any other religion or non-religion is something not seen in all Christian History. They kill each other for Christ's sake and have been for centuries.

    Great post Shake. It really drives home the Christian paradox.

    And DL and his Fundamental Christians support Jews argument is only from the tiniest fringes of both fundamentalist religions. Both of which believe that it is Biblical prophecy that Israel must expand to their original borders. They agree to disagree on everything else and are willing to let God sort out who goes to heaven and hell after they bring about Armageddon.

    But the majority of Christians still see the Jews as the evil ones who killed Christ. And of course Jews still see the whole rest of the world and especially Christians and Muslims at their persecutors.



    I guess I'm going to have to take the time to straighten this out lest some unsuspecting impressionable folks think they're reading anything close to the truth.

    There were not only 18 Mormons killed in Missouri, the killings were prompted by and "Extermination Order" issued by the Governor. Their leader Joseph Smith was also jailed and then killed by a mob in 1844 in Illinois. The persecution was so bad most Mormons fled across the Mississippi to escape it before migrating to Salt Lake City.

    And polygamy was pretty far down the list of the reasons for persecuting and killing Mormons. Topping the list was their religious beliefs followed closely by their tendency to gather and vote in one block taking over local governments. (A practice they still advocate and practice today).

    Now if you want to say less Mormons were massacred than people massacred by Mormons once they settled in the Salt Lake Valley you would be right about that.

    DL even if you were right about that, and all Christian History goes against believing that, it would still leave the Christians free to persecute the majority of the rest of the world. And it would depend on who came out on top. If it was the so called Christians then you would be presecuting Deidre and if it was the Catholics Deidre would be persecuting you. All history says that's the case.

    Rrrriiiigggghhhhtttt. And the Christian world goes around adhering to the teachings of Paul.:rolleyes:
     
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  7. ShakeZula

    ShakeZula The Master Shake

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    See, DL and I got in to this topic of women's rights a couple of weeks ago. DL's contention is that because the bible says to treat widows (not single women, mind, just widows) on the same level as you treat cripples and the retarded, i.e. with pity and some charity, that this negates the absolutely atrocious records on women's rights to be found. The bible is not REALLY anti-woman because widows are to be taken care of.

    And he quotes St. Paul here to suit his purposes but tries to explain away the writings of dear Paul when he's basically calling women slaves to their husbands. See, when Paul says Christ is in all of us, that's valid. When Paul says women aren't allowed to speak or learn unless their husbands allow it, that's just... I dunno.

    DL, is that just one of those things where you can do your apolgetics dance and say that it was simply a more barbaric time?

    The devil quotes scripture to suit his own purposes, eh DL? Which one of us is the devil in this scenario, I wonder. :lol:

    -S-
     
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  8. Frank Castle

    Frank Castle Sex Lover

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    Seems Kinda kinda of a weird story as a soldier we havent been trained to spread religion around just bullets
     
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  9. Penny_Lane

    Penny_Lane Porno Junky

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    I am SO turned on by your entire post! I've started a few different replies, but I don't think I can add to that awesomeness.
     
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  10. ShakeZula

    ShakeZula The Master Shake

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    I do have my moments. :mrgreen:

    To bad we don't play on the same team. :(

    -S-
     
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  11. Distant Lover

    Distant Lover Master of Facts

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    Originally Posted by Distant Lover [​IMG]
    There was no mass killing of Mormons. There was persecution not because of Mormon beliefs but because they practiced polygamy. I am not condoning that persecution, but polygamy was illegal.


    I do not consider 18 to be mass killing.
     
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  12. ShakeZula

    ShakeZula The Master Shake

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    Dance my apologist monkey, Dance!

    You know, in the Columbine shootings the two kids killed 13 kids and they called that a massacre. How many must die at the hands of Christians for you to consider it a massacre?

    -S-
     
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  13. Penny_Lane

    Penny_Lane Porno Junky

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    I'm on your team 35% of the time ;) (I figure that's my estimated straightness...)
     
    #53
  14. Distant Lover

    Distant Lover Master of Facts

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    I have never heard a contemporary Christian claim that the Jews killed Christ. I have never read such an accusation. Every anti-Semite I have known was not an observant Christian. Three were atheists.

    The consensus opinion is that Jesus was killed by the Romans. Crucifixion was a Roman means of execution. Stoning was a Jewish means of execution. Jesus violated no Jewish laws. Claiming to be the messiah was not a violation of Jewish law. It was subversive to Rome, however.

    Mark 15:7 says, "And there was one named Barabbas, which lay bound with them that had made insurrection with him, who had committed murder in the insurrection." This insurrection is not otherwise explained, but it seems to have happened shortly before Jesus rode into Jerusalem. When Jesus entered Jerusalem the Jews said, Luke 19:38 "Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven and glory in the highest." The Romans would have seen this as a continuation of the insurrection.
     
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  15. Penny_Lane

    Penny_Lane Porno Junky

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    Really? Not one? Ever? Hmmm.... *cough-Mel Gibson-cough* As much as I hate to celebrity name drop...

    And btw, 18 is a mass killing. Definition of a mass murderer: a person who kills several or numerous people in a single incident.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 6, 2009
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  16. Distant Lover

    Distant Lover Master of Facts

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    As I have pointed out on several occasions, Christians have not practiced religious persecution with any degree of severity for over two hundred years. Nothing in the New Testament suggests that religious persecution is acceptable. The Koran specifically commands violence as a means of spreading Islam. Moslems currently practice religious persecution. As mentioned in this thread, Moslems kill former Moslems who convert to other faiths.

    Also, Christian persecution has been primarily Roman Catholic persecution. As an Episcopalian, I do not feel the need to apologize for what the Roman Catholics did hundred of years ago, especially because many founders of my denomination were burned at the stake in England during the reign of Mary I from 1553-1558. During the much longer reigh of Elizabeth I, from 1533–1603 several Roman Catholics were hanged, but they were hanged for spying for Spain.
     
    #56
  17. Distant Lover

    Distant Lover Master of Facts

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    Did Mel Gibson actually say that the Jews were collectively guilty of the crucifixion of Christ? I doubt it. Even if he did he speaks only for himself.
     
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  18. ShakeZula

    ShakeZula The Master Shake

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    I'm not defending the Koran at all. I'm well aware of what it says. But DL, what do we see happening in the "Western" world in the last two centuries? Here's a hint. It starts with an E and ends in Enlightenment. We see the stripping of papal authority and the removing of religion from positions of power. That is why Christians aren't persecuting at will, society will no longer tolerate it. But Christianity has not changed.

    No one is asking for you to apologize for the Catholics. That would be absurd.

    -S-
     
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  19. Distant Lover

    Distant Lover Master of Facts

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    Christianity has changed. They reason you do not acknowledge this is because of your anti-Christian bigotry. You are simply looking for reasons to hate Christianity, and by implication Christians.

    This is the question I was originally asked in this thread:

    I have explained why I believe the religious right would be tolerant of non-Christian religions. The impression I have gained by my study of the religious right is that it only really wanted to restore the religious status quo that existed in the United States during the 1950's. You would not welcome such a restoration, but no one can say that the United States was a theocratic dictatorship back then.

    I might add that there was no desire to restore Jim Crow legislation.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 6, 2009
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  20. ellehcor

    ellehcor Sex Lover

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    “I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” Historian Henry Roberts (1901-1971)

    [SIZE=+2]Proof #47 - Contemplate creation
    [/SIZE]
    Many Christians look at our universe, and especially life on planet Earth, and come to the conclusion that what we see is "irreducible complexity." In the Christian view, the complexity of our universe and life on earth requires an intelligent creator to bring everything into existence. A Christian might say:

    • "Look at how amazing and complex life is. Look at how intricate the human eye is, and the human brain. There is no way that the human eye and the human brain arose spontaneously from the mud. In the same way that a watch cannot appear without a watchmaker, there is no way that all this complexity arose without an intelligent creator."
    So, we have a question that demands an answer:
    • Did the complexity of life arise spontaneously, or did it require a creator?
    Christians believe that a creator is essential. Scientists believe that the idea of a "creator" is pure mythology, and that the complexity arose through natural processes like evolution. Who is right?
    You can actually answer this question yourself with a little logic. Here are the two options:


    1. [*]The complexity of life and the universe did arise completely spontaneously and without any intelligence. Nature created all the complexity we see today.
      [*]An intelligent creator created all of the complexity that we see today because complexity requires intelligence to create it.
    The advantage of the first option is that it is self-contained. The complexity arose spontaneously. No other explanation is required. The problem with the second option is that it immediately creates an impossibility. If complexity cannot arise without intelligence, then we immediately must ask, "Who created the intelligent creator?" The creator could not spring into existence if complexity requires intelligence. Therefore, God is impossible.
    In other words, by applying logic, we can prove that God is imaginary.


    Logic: kicking Faith's ass since the beginning of time.
     
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